Is John the Baptist the last prophet?

Is there a last prophet in the Bible?

by Ibn Anwar

I was having a discussion with a Christian on paltalk today by the nick name LoveCryReason about Islam and whether it’s a true religion or not. He questioned the legitimacy of Muhammad’s s.a.w. prophethood based on his understanding of Matthew 11:13 which according to him says that there will be no prophet after John the Baptist. The Christian evangelist VenomFangX also shares a similar notion. Is this a correct position to take?

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” (Matthew 11:13)

If the verse means what LoveCryReason says i.e. no other prophet shall arise after John the Baptist then such a position will contradict the following:

“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.”(Matthew 21:11)

Jesus came after john the Baptist and is indeed a Prophet as confirmed by the above verse. If the verse is true then how can John the Baptist be regarded as the last prophet and no other shall come after him? Further more, we read of a test to determine a true prophet from a false one in 1 John. If there was no prophet to come how then can you have such a measurement or test which was given much later after both John and Jesus. Thus we read:

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize God’s Spirit: Every person who declares that Jesus Christ has come as a human has the Spirit that is from God. But every person who doesn’t declare that Jesus Christ has come as a human has a spirit that isn’t from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming. That spirit is already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

The verses tell us that a true spirit is a true prophet and a false spirit is a false prophet. To determine a true spirit from a false spirit see whether they declare that Jesus is Christ who has come as a human. Clearly, the passage is in the future tense. By the way according to the test Muhammad is indeed a spirit from God i.e. a true Prophet as he time and again declares that Jesus is the Christ who was a messenger of God.

In addition, we are informed by Wesley’s Bible commentary that:

“11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John – For all that is written in the law and the prophets only foretold as distant what is now fulfilled. In John the old dispensation expired, and the new began. Luke 16:16.”

The Geneva study Bible says about the verse:

“(d) They prophesied of things to come, which are now present, and clearly and plainly seen.”

In fact, none of the major commentaries which I went through including Matthew Henry’s say anything about John the Baptist being the final prophet and none other shall come after him. LoveCryReason is clearly mistaken and needs to recant.

 

**UPDATE**

About five minutes ago I had another encounter with LoveCryReason, at long last! After evading me for so long it’s good to hear from him. He had a debate with a brother in a room under the Human Rights, Social Issues section called oO The Great Debate Quran or Bible Oo. Unfortunately, I missed it and came in about 2 two hours late. Brother Bfoali(a good friend of mine) was the one who informed me about the debate:

You just sent a nudge!

Bfoali:

sallam

Bfoali:

akhi

Dr Onomatopoeia:

ws wr

Bfoali:

u missed a debate

Bfoali:

in the quran room

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u’re no fun anymore : (

Bfoali:

quran or bible

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u haven’t commented

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

really?

Bfoali:

loo

Dr Onomatopoeia:

between whom?

Bfoali:

yeah

Bfoali:

boring…

Bfoali:

umm

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Bfoali:

issa al muslim verses lovingcryparadise

Bfoali:

something about the trinity

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that name seems familiar

Bfoali:

which one

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lovingcry

Bfoali:

allahu a3alin

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i think he’s the same guy as lovecryreason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

the one i wrote about

Bfoali:

maybe that was him

Bfoali:

mabe that was him

Bfoali:

i tihnk it was

Bfoali:

nvm

Bfoali:

it was ur guy

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: p

Dr Onomatopoeia:

yea

So, after that I started posting the link to this article in the room claiming that LoveCryReason does not really know his Bible. LoveCryReason returned to the room at the most opportuned moment and saw my posting and so our discussion in pm(priivate message) commenced.

*Notice how he tries to deny that we ever had the discussion and when I proved it to him, he attempted to change his position, but I cornered him on that too and he just kept beating around the bush before running away once again!

 

LoveCryReason:

may I ask who wrote that artice because I do not recall that conversation.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i did

Dr Onomatopoeia:

have u already forgotten me?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u’ve been evading me since

LoveCryReason:

i never made a discussion with you.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

yes, you have

LoveCryReason:

about that topic.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lool

LoveCryReason:

when?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u claimed that John the Baptist is the last prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

several weeks ago

LoveCryReason:

when did i state this?

LoveCryReason:

can u pull up the conversation?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

when we had the discussion

Dr Onomatopoeia:

aww

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u’re in denial now

Dr Onomatopoeia:

either that

Dr Onomatopoeia:

or you have really poor memory

Dr Onomatopoeia:

it was before Nov 11

Dr Onomatopoeia:

or around that time

LoveCryReason:

appealing to ridicule.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i wrote the article almost immediately after we discussed

LoveCryReason:

did u save the convo?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i don’t think i did..i usually do

Dr Onomatopoeia:

as u can see

Dr Onomatopoeia:

with my discussions

Dr Onomatopoeia:

with other christians like fares

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and turinshroud

Dr Onomatopoeia:

published on the blog as well

Dr Onomatopoeia:

ah yes

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i did save it

LoveCryReason:

can u send me the convo

Dr Onomatopoeia:

Dr Onomatopoeia: hiYou just sent a nudge!

LoveCryReason: what is up, i am still in my room

Dr Onomatopoeia: yea

Dr Onomatopoeia: i hope u don’t still believe the verse says what u think it says

Dr Onomatopoeia: : p

Dr Onomatopoeia: i’ve just completed an article

Dr Onomatopoeia: on the issue

LoveCryReason: we have to discuss it another time.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

 

http://unveilingchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/is-john-the-baptist-the-last-prophet/

Dr Onomatopoeia: oh..we can discuss it anytime, sir

Dr Onomatopoeia: you can always drop by our site

Dr Onomatopoeia: and share with us your thoughts

Dr Onomatopoeia: i personally have conversed with dozens of missionaries and christian theologians

Dr Onomatopoeia: including around 5 ordained pastors and a theologian John Fraiser M.Div.

Dr Onomatopoeia: recorded on the site

Dr Onomatopoeia: so, whenever you’re free

Dr Onomatopoeia: give us a ring in the comment section

Dr Onomatopoeia: ; )

Dr Onomatopoeia:

we were discussing on mic

Dr Onomatopoeia:

after which i wrote the article

Dr Onomatopoeia:

when u had to leave

Dr Onomatopoeia:

or rather i had to leave

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and then when i came back

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u were in another room

Dr Onomatopoeia:

discussing about mormonism

LoveCryReason:

mice in the chat room or pm?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and i went to that room

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and i asked you if you’d like to continue the discussion about ur claim that john the baptist is the last prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and u denied

Dr Onomatopoeia:

saying u’re busy

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i asked u several times

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and also

Dr Onomatopoeia:

the following days

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u evaded

Dr Onomatopoeia:

again and again

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

still don’t remember?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u still wanna deny?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

LoveCryReason:

hmm I dont recall but if I did i can defend my position in what I meant by the Last prophet if you are at all interested in hearing what I have to say or you still want to obtain your bias and ridicule christians and make them look bad.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lovecryreason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

the article is posted

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and u’re more than free to clarify

Dr Onomatopoeia:

read my articles

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i don’t shy away from christian criticism

Dr Onomatopoeia:

in fact

Dr Onomatopoeia:

every single one of them fled the scene

LoveCryReason:

then the error is with you because u did not understand the concept I was making but instead picking biasly.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

including that catholic guy conway

Dr Onomatopoeia:

who tried to defend ur position

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

LoveCryReason…you made it explicitly clear that John the Baptist is the last prophet and there shall be no other after him

Dr Onomatopoeia:

we were discussing about Muhammad s.a..w

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u said

Dr Onomatopoeia:

Muhammad could not be a prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

since the line of prophethood ended with John the Baptist

LoveCryReason:

S.a..w what does that mean?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and you gave me the verse from Matthew

Dr Onomatopoeia:

stop beating around the bush love

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i am not a newbie

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i am more than familiar with Christian arguments

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u are not the only Christian who thinks John the Baptist is the last prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

as u can see in the comment section

Dr Onomatopoeia:

the catholic christian conway

Dr Onomatopoeia:

shares ur position

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i also mention venomfangx in the article

Dr Onomatopoeia:

he also shares that view

Dr Onomatopoeia:

as i have heard him before

Dr Onomatopoeia:

so, stop beating around the bush LoveCryReason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

i don’t forget things so easily

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and i am very familiar with Christian gymnastics

Dr Onomatopoeia:

; )

LoveCryReason:

in my saying that he was the last prophet it was talking about revelations. No new prophet will give revelations.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

was Jesus given revelation?

LoveCryReason:

brand new revelations*

Dr Onomatopoeia:

yes, he was

Dr Onomatopoeia:

he brought new teachings

Dr Onomatopoeia:

he brought the teaching about turning the other cheek instead of an eye for an eye

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that’s revelation

Dr Onomatopoeia:

do not forget Jesus received commandments from the Father

LoveCryReason:

In scripture Jesus was called a prophet alot of other things. In the christian world View He was counted more then a prophet.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

as he so explicitly mentions in the Gospels

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that’s not the point

Dr Onomatopoeia:

the point is he was a prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and received revelation

Dr Onomatopoeia:

you’re saying John the Baptist was the last

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and no revelation after him

Dr Onomatopoeia:

yet, i’m showing you now

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that Jesus did receive revelation

LoveCryReason:

yes but its not necessarily clear to say that he was just aprophet because he was more. John was just a prophet.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and this was AFTER John the Baptist

Dr Onomatopoeia:

now, you are again beating around the bush

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

it’s not about just a prophet or more than a prophet

LoveCryReason:

Jesus did not recieve revelation but he gave revelation because Christian world view declares him as God.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

it’s about ur claim that John the Baptist is the last prophet

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and that revelation ended with him

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

LoveCryReason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

Jesus said

Dr Onomatopoeia:

“my teaching is not my own”

Dr Onomatopoeia:

continue the verse please

LoveCryReason:

this is why u do not understand. But if you want leave the article up their. It just appeals to ridicule and spite.

LoveCryReason:

take care

Dr Onomatopoeia:

LoveCryReason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

this discussion we’re having right now

Dr Onomatopoeia:

will be published in the article

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

for all to see

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: )

Dr Onomatopoeia:

running?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

awww

LoveCryReason:

go and do what u want.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

once again..you are more than welcome to comment on the article

Dr Onomatopoeia:

criticise

Dr Onomatopoeia:

bring ur scholars

Dr Onomatopoeia:

etc.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

it’s open for you to comment

Dr Onomatopoeia:

it’s about you after all

Dr Onomatopoeia:

don’t hide

LoveCryReason:

go do what u want

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: p

—————-

Continued about 10 minutes later:

*The above discussion is the raw material which I have not edited nor changed in any way. For the sake of brevity I will not add the print screen shots of the discussion. However, if you’d like me to send them to you as PROOF that the discussion took place and I have not changed anything please do e-mail me at ibnanwar@yahoo.com and request for it. Thanks.

 

LoveCryReason:

may I ask you a question?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

what makes you think you may not?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: p

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u should read my written debate with the Christian theologian John Fraiser M.Div.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that was good

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: )

LoveCryReason:

what is your agenda in proclaiming in which you find faults with my arguments?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

my agenda is simple

Dr Onomatopoeia:

Unveiling Christianity

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and i’ve been in the field for 5 years

Dr Onomatopoeia:

alhamdulillah

Dr Onomatopoeia:

: )

Dr Onomatopoeia:

well, almost 6 now

LoveCryReason:

so how are u exposing me?

Dr Onomatopoeia:

http://unveilingchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/is-john-the-baptist-the-last-prophetDr Onomatopoeia:

it’s updated

Dr Onomatopoeia:

conway

Dr Onomatopoeia:

tried to defend ur position

Dr Onomatopoeia:

he has fled the scene

Dr Onomatopoeia:

like all the other christians

Dr Onomatopoeia:

scholar and lay alike

Dr Onomatopoeia:

conway

Dr Onomatopoeia:

george

Dr Onomatopoeia:

pastor carrey

Dr Onomatopoeia:

godferroi

LoveCryReason:

You are demanding irationality.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

..

Dr Onomatopoeia:

irrationality is saying Jesus is God and making dogmatic claims that is not supported by your own scripture

LoveCryReason:

because me not arguing necessarily disproves my position? Yes or no and by this answer I can judge what kind of reasoning skills you use.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

LoveCryReason

Dr Onomatopoeia:

go to the updated article

Dr Onomatopoeia:

and defend ur positition in the comment section

Dr Onomatopoeia:

take the whole day to compose ur arguments

Dr Onomatopoeia:

if you need to

LoveCryReason:

u cant answer my question then I will block you.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

lol

Dr Onomatopoeia:

that will just prove my point

Dr Onomatopoeia:

christians flee when they are cornered

Dr Onomatopoeia:

particularly, evangelists

LoveCryReason:

say as u will.

Dr Onomatopoeia:

LoveCry

Dr Onomatopoeia:

according to your master Paulk

Dr Onomatopoeia:

Paul*

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u cannot be silent

Dr Onomatopoeia:

you must PROVE

Dr Onomatopoeia:

as he says in 1 Thessalonians ” PROVE ALL THINGS “

Dr Onomatopoeia:

so ur question is moot

Dr Onomatopoeia:

u need to read ur scriptures more : )

Image2 Is John the Baptist the last prophet? LoveCryReason is now offline.

Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.

 

Incoming search terms:

  • last prophet in the bible
  • who is the last prophet in the bible
  • the last prophet in the bible
  • who was the last prophet in the bible
  • who was the last and greatest catholic prophet
  • wh9o is the last prophet in bible
  • according to bible who is last prophet
  • john the baptist prophet of christianity
  • www who was the last prophet in the bible?
  • bible verse about john the baptist as last prophet
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

20 Responses to “Is John the Baptist the last prophet?”

  1. Ali says:

    Sallam,
    Sometimes when discussing with a Christian they tend to be quite ignorant of others beliefs regarding their own un holy bible. The person you discussed fails to recognise that maybe the people he is speaking with does not necessarily believe in the bible as ’’inspired’’ None the less, you took his word that the bibles word is true, and im sure turned his world upside down.
    This article not only puts the bibles perfection to the test, it also aids us in our understanding of who really was Jesus of Nazareth.
    I leave with the verse from the holy Quran
    003:068] The people who can rightfully claim (allegiance to) Ibraheem, are of course those who obeyed him; and (now) this prophet (Muhammad, SAW) and those who believe (in this prophet). And Allah is the Protector of the believers.
    Walikum Salam Wr Wb

  2. conway23 says:

    A very interesting discussion; I appreciate your interest in Christianity. The Catholic Church also teaches that St. John The Baptist is indeed the last prophet. This is a commentary from the Navarre Bible commentary of St. Matthew:

    “With John the Old Testament is brought to a close and we are on the threshold of the New. The Precursor had the honor of ushering Christ in, making him known to men. God had assigned him the exalted mission of preparing his contemporaries to hear the Gospel.”

    You quote Matthew 21:11, and you claim this is proof that Jesus is only a prophet. If you read the quote carefully, it says “the crowds (multitude)” said that Jesus is a prophet. St. Matthew does not tell us the crowd is correct or infallible or inspired – he simply reports what they said. You’d certainly agree that crowds on the street of New York, Paris or Cairo are often mistaken about things, not because they are fools, but because they don’t have all the facts. St. Matthew simply reports what the crowds said. It’s not the most profound piece of scripture – it’s more like journalism.

    God Bless

  3. Ibn Anwar says:

    Greetings,
    I did not know that the Catholic Church taught that John the Baptist actually teaches that he is the last prophet. Can you show me where this is mentioned in the Catholic encyclopedia or Catechism? The following commentary which you provided nowhere says that John the Baptist is the final prophet. I find it rather strange that the Catholic Church teaches that John the Baptist is the final prophet(if what you say is true) when the Bible clearly teaches otherwise:

    “But Jesus said to them, “A PROPHET is not without honour except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”(Mark 6:4)

    “But Jesus said to them, “A PROPHET is not without honour except in his own country and his own house.”(Matthew 13:57)

    “Then he said, “Assuredly, I say to you, no PROPHET is accepted in his own country.”(Luke 4:24)

    Who was he talking about??? He was talking about himself!

    Apparently, the Catholic Church does not understand the Bible that well if they do indeed say John the Baptist is the last prophet.

    Then, you attempted to rebut Matthew 21:11 by saying that it’s just journalism in action and the author does not say whether they were correct or inspired. I find these statements rather strange. You have no compunction in accepting the pharisees and the scribes when they accused Jesus of divinity in John 10 and elsewhere. However, these are the very same ones who REJECTED Jesus and whom Jesus denounced and condemned as liars and accursed OVER 60 TIMES throughout the whole Gospels e.g. Matthew 23 Jesus cursed them “Woe be unto you” over 6 times again and again, Mark 12:38-40, Luke 20:45-47 etc.
    We also read the following:
    And they that had laid hold on Jesus Christ led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. Now the chief priests, and the elders and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death.” (Matthew 26:57)

    You would have us all believe this lot of people but would have us deny the multitudes who believed and accepted Jesus? What a strange position indeed.

    So we read similar verses concerning the perception of the people about Jesus:
    “And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:”(Luke 24:19)

    “And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us”(Luke 7:16)

    “Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.”(John 7:40)

    Finally, I reproduce the passage which you conveniently ignored which clearly shows us that there is no last prophet in the Bible:
    “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize God’s Spirit: Every person who declares that Jesus Christ has come as a human has the Spirit that is from God. But every person who doesn’t declare that Jesus Christ has come as a human has a spirit that isn’t from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming. That spirit is already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

    It provides a manner or method of determination for the future i.e. how to tell a real prophet from a false one.

    Like LoveCryReason you are mistaken as well.

  4. Ibn Anwar says:

    I forgot to add this verse:
    “Sir,’ the woman said, ‘I can see that you are a prophet’” (John 4:19)

    The woman said this to Jesus. Did Jesus rectify her concept about him? if he was not a prophet he was obligated to do so. Yet, it was not corrected. What does that mean? There is no doubt that the Gospels teach that Jesus was a prophet!

  5. Ali says:

    Greetings Conway,
    Thank you for you interest in this blog and we hope to see your quick return.
    None the less, lets get to your comment.
    I am not sure exactly as to how you got the answer of John being the last prophet from the catholic commentary you posted. I am actually quite astounded that you would even post this, (A) this doesn’t deal with the subject (B) it doesn’t prove anything.
    Regarding Mathew 21:11 if you would like to post me something contrary to this then I will be happy to read.. The verse clearly states that the crowds, accepted Jesus Christ as a prophet. When one is to actually read the four gospels. You will NEVER find a statement similar to that of Mathew 21:11 regarding his divinity. We Muslims claim that Jesus (as) was a prophet of god, and Mathew 21:11 gives us reassurance that Jesus was a prophet (last one, not John)
    Granted Mathew isn’t the only gospel which poses this problem for Christians,
    If you read John chapter number 4:13-19 Jesus is called a prophet by a women. If one is to read John chapter number 6:10-14 Jesus is called prophet yet again.

    None the less, Jesus Christ is prophet of God, and it can be concluded the John the Baptist is NOT the last prophet.

  6. conway23 says:

    Gentlemen, wonderful to hear your responses. There’s couple of misconceptions to clear up. First, here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says regarding John the Baptist being the last prophet:

    719 “John the Baptist is ‘more than a prophet’ In him, the Holy Spirit concludes his speaking through the prophets. John completes the cycle of prophets begun by Elijah.”

    I think it’s also worth mentioning a few things regarding how Catholics read the Bible. On this blog you may have encountered fundamentalist Protestant Christians who read the Bible literally and use it as their only source of authority. Catholics have three sources of authority that they follow: 1). Sacred Scripture (Bible), Sacred Tradition (oral history, passed down from Jesus and the apostles), and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church (the Pope united with the Bishops).

    And when it comes to reading scripture, we do not believe in private interpretation. The Catholic Church is the ultimate authority on what any given passage means. It’s kind of like the relationship between the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court. When there is some confusion about what the Constitution means, we ask the Court to decide.

    Catholics believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, but that God used real human beings as instruments, cooperating with them to get his message across. We do not believe that the writers of scripture simply dictated God’s message, word by word. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong), that Muslims believe that the Prophet Mohammad simply dictated God’s message, word by word, and this is how the Koran must be read.

    So it’s important to remember that the the four gospel writers are writing about a real historical event, that happened with real people in a real place in time. I say this as an introduction to comments by Ibn Anwar, “You would have us all believe this lot of people but would have us deny the multitudes who believed and accepted Jesus? What a strange position indeed.” The Gospel writers chronicled a real time in history much like our own: a place where sin, human pride and evil lurk in many places. And of course, men do not wish to look at this. Just as in 33 A.D., people today have many different views on Jesus Christ: you believe he is a prophet,some think he was just a teacher, others believe a number of things, some believed he was God. So just as people have different opinions now, so did they on Palestine 2,000 years ago, so the Gospel writers convey this information.

    So when we survey human history we have two categories of great men:

    1.) Prophets, teachers and wise men: Muhammed, Moses, Isaiah, Buddha, Confucius, Socrates, Ghandi…And not one of these men claimed to be God.

    2) Men who claimed to be God: Jesus Christ…He is the only one to claim divinity

    This is really the point. We can trade Bible verses all day, but this is really the point. Christinity alone is unique becasue its leader claimed, not to have a message from God, but to be God. You, of course, know that already. You are smart men and I will go now further on this.

    Catholics and Muslims share common values that are completely lost on much of the modern, secular word: abortion, divorce, homosexuality, sexual license are all seen as acceptable these days, in violation of God’s laws and the laws of nature – there is much we an agree on. I respect how much time you’ve taken to look over the scriptures and to see what they say. God Bless.

  7. Ibn Anwar says:

    Greetings,
    Sir, there have been no misconceptions from my part. If there are could you point out the “couple of misconceptions”? With regards to the catechism, did I state anything which can be construed as misconception? All I did is to ask you to produce some text from the catechism where John the Baptist is considered the last prophet which you did and I thank you for that. But, asking a question is not a misconception.

    Well, you don’t have to tell me how you as a Catholic go through reading scripture. Having gone through a Catechism course and read materials pertaining to Catholocism I know very well how scripture is understood in the Catholic tradition and how to some extent tradition may supercede scriptual text. Herein lies the problem. Brother Ali and I have produced several key proof texts to show that Jesus is a prophet who obviously came after John the Baptist and refuted your weak argument concerning the multitudes calling Jesus a prophet. Failing to actually respond to all those verses you conveniently step over them and resort to authority i.e. RCC. This is a logical fallacy, Conway. You need to show us that our reading of the scriptures produced concerning Jesus being a prophet and 1 John 4:1-3 about future prophets is wrong. But of course you can’t do that because any logical person can see that the texts themselves support our position. The text in question is Matthew 11:13 and that text does not in any shape or form say that John the Baptist is the culmination of prophets and none other will come later. In fact, the commentary which you alleged says that he is the last prophet says NOTHING of the kind as anyone who can read is able to see. You have also failed to satisfy the predicament of denying the statement of the multitudes who believed in Jesus, but accepts without question the accusations of his enemies who hated and lied upon him as Jesus himself testifies in Matthew 26:57.

    After failing miserably to actually Biblically defend your position you start talking about Jesus claiming divinity. What has that got to do with the article? Perhaps, you got confused with another article which you blasted me with a hundred different quotations supposedly supporting Jesus’ divinity-something which is called a “machine gun” tactic in debates. And a very cheap tactic it is indeed. Nevertheless, I shall endeavour to respond to those verses in due course. What should be noted here is Jesus never claimed divinity or Godhood as my article “Where did Jesus claim worship me or I am God?” proves. Do not worry, your comment with all those verses will be dealt with.

  8. conway23 says:

    Dear Ibn Anwar:

    I think you are right on the machine gun approach I used on the other article, this was not a straightforward and honorable way to do things. You are entirely right in that regard – trotting out Bible verses is not a proper way to engage in a mature discussion.

    I think we both know it doesn’t matter what Bible passage, Catechism quotation or Papal encyclical I quote, you are a faithful Muslim and committed to your beliefs; I admire your zeal and would like to see more of it in the members of my own faith.

    I enjoyed the discussion and am confident that the world will know the people of God by their love, which is best displayed in the virtue of charity to both friend and stranger alike.

    God Bless

  9. Ibn Anwar says:

    Greetings,
    I thank you for your continued participation. Without going through formalities I’d like to address what you said:
    “I think we both know it doesn’t matter what Bible passage, Catechism quotation or Papal encyclical I quote, you are a faithful Muslim and committed to your beliefs”

    Well, so far you have not quoted A SINGLE Bible passage in response to the above article. You have only quoted a Bible commentary and a catechism quotation regarding John the Baptist. I’m not sure if I can agree with your saying “it doesn’t matter what Bible passage I(meaning you) quote)”. As a matter of fact, I think you ought to take that statement back in light of 1 Corinthians 5:21, “PROVE ALL THINGS…”. You are obligated to prove your case sir. Isaiah says, “Let us reason together”. You have rightly identified me as a faithful Muslim who is committed to his beliefs. And amongst my beliefs as a Muslim concerns Surah Al-Baqarah(2) verse 111 which you can read at the heading of the blog,”…Say(to them):Produce your proof if you are people of truth”. Thus, I am asking you to produce evidences which you have so far MISERABLY failed. The Bible clearly destroys your idea that John the Baptist is the last prophet and as such you are silenced on it.

    You said,”I enjoyed the discussion and am confident that the world will know the people of God by their love, which is best displayed in the virtue of charity to both friend and stranger alike. ”

    Well, I am confident that people who have eyes to see and a mind to think with will not be easily duped by “false prophets in sheep’s clothing but are inwardly ravening wolves” which thousands of your Church officers have been exposed to be i.e. rapists of choir boys. I am confident that the hypocrisy of the Church will be a most potent warning sign for those who approach the Catholic Church. I am confident that people can judge the evidences and facts based on their own God given intellect. Finally, I’d like to thank you for raising the white flag like your other brethren e.g. John Fraiser M.Div., Godferoi, Pastor Carrey etc. have. Thank you again.

  10. Jason says:

    John the baptist is the last testament prophet -.- ……
    As prophecies by elijah.

    While John the baptist prophecies the coming of the Christ (the annointed one)

    Who would baptist the world not with water but with the holy spirit.

    While the christ prophecies false prophets in sheep clothings.

    Now Ibn Anwar I have a question for you.
    Did not Mohhamed claim to be the last prophet?

    “Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of God and the last (end) of the Prophets. And God is Ever All-Aware of everything. S. 33:40 Hilali-Khan”

    Then why does the Quran teach that Jesus would return. If he is a prophet according to the Quran. Doesn’t it contradict itself???

    So in sence its Jesus who is the last messenger and last prophet, not muhhamed.

  11. Ibn Anwar says:

    Greetings,
    I believe I have already proven in the article and the comments that followed that John the Baptist is NOT the seal of prophets. There is no need to continue beating on the dead horse. You can refer to the comments, especially comment number 3 if you haven’t already.
    Yes, the Qur’an and Sunnah are very emphatic with regards to Muhammad’s s.a.w. position as the last and final messenger and prophet of God. There will not be another. You said:
    “Then why does the Quran teach that Jesus would return. If he is a prophet according to the Quran. Doesn’t it contradict itself???”
    I’m sorry but it’s quite clear you have not read the Qur’an or really studied Islam which is clearly seen in that statement you made. Nowhere does the Qur’an say that Jesus is going to come back. This information is found in Hadith and not the Qur’an. There is no contradiction involved. Jesus Christ was appointed as a messenger before Muhammad s.a.w. and not after. The qur’an says:
    “He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; “And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; “(He) hath made me kind to my mother and not overbearing or miserable; “So Peace is on me the day I was born the day that I die and the Day that I shall be raised up to life”! Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth about which they (vainly) dispute. ( 19:30-34 )

    So, his appointment and dispensation as a Prophet of God was prior to Muhammad s.a.w. However, if Muhammad s.a.w. is the last messenger then why is Jesus CHrist a.s. coming back? The answer to that is found in several ahadith where they mention that Jesus will return to break the cross, kill the anti-christ, eliminate pigs, live for forty years and die as any other man. He will not return as a prophet or messenger since Islam was already completed in the time of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.:
    `This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.` (al-Maa`idah 5:3)
    According to Islamic theology, Jesus a.s. will return as a follower of Muhammad s.a.w. He will not come to supercede Muhammad s.a.w. and change any of the laws that have already been revealed, but to do some the things which I have mentioned. So, there is no contradiction.

  12. robhiengler says:

    Ahh yes the old theological debates rage on a thousand years later: arrogant wise fools debating whose scriptures are more right – laughable. At no point has either the Bible or Quran been proved more divine than lets say the Harry Potter septulogy; and yes the replies to prove this statement wrong will fall under the old pitfalls: appealing to authority; argument from age; argumentum ad populum etc. ad nauseum.

    But thanks I did want to confirm the fact that the Catholic church considers John the Baptist the last prophet; just my little argument against those crazy Mormons ;) and “their prophet” Joseph Smith.

    *CENSORED* (GET A LIFE!)

    see YOU on the flip side.

  13. ARMY OF JESUS IS ISLAM says:

    Selamu alaykum wr wb.. Great work Dr. Onamento, I couldn’t get breath on how much i really laughf how badly you exposed him, poor old (Love cry reason) I like the way he used the escape goat rout playing the victim game excuses when there was no rebuttal. Very nicely done.. I bet his racking and kicking himself for opening his mouth for admitting to the discussion about john, i bet he was kicking himself saying I should have’’kept silent’’!!! and act dumb like it was never ME!!!! hahaha

    Also want to respond to the above claim by (Robhiengler) comparing Harry potter to Gods scripture. This person hasn’t obviously read the Quran thinking its like the bible.. Its worlds apart! Bible and Harry potter actually share one thing in common unlike the Quran. It was authored by a human being accept for the Quran which was authored by Allah, and that is why the quran chapters start in the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful. Bible and Harry potter on the other hand start with Mathew, mark, Luke and john as for Harry potter starts in the name of J. K. Rowling.

  14. the birdie says:

    Great article Ibn. There are some points where I disagree, but some have been covered already.

    Correct me if I am wrong conway23, but no where does Jesus ever say that he is divinity. He never even claims to be the messiah(christ), the only thing close comes in mark when he is asked if he is, his response “you have said it”, meaning “you said it, not I”.

    There are many points where he is said to be the son of god. But read the texts from the dead sea scrolls, the essenes spoke like this calling them selves the sons of light, the sons of god, all the gospels have all the imagery and slang of the essenes. there were many messiahs(christ in greek) in the jewish bible(christian ot), that doesn’t make them divine. the jewish messiah is not supposed to be divine, but this is all interpertation and where you are brought up to believe, if you were raised in an arab country, 90% sure you would be muslim and not christian.

    also what Ibn said about jesus returning in the qu’ran is correct. i find that a lot of christians hear things from a pastor and assume they are correct, in fact id say jews and muslims read more about theirs and other religions more than christians do, they are pretty ignorant on scripture and even reading it in the original language. there are so many contradictions in the jewish bible, more in the christian bible because of the carelessness of the catholic church.

    read the early church fathers quotations of scripture. the verses never speak of the trinity, even the last chapter of matthew, it was a later insertation by the churhc. it is more evident in the catholic’s textus receptus, which was just them adding their theology. it makes no sense, not even jesus or paul speak of a trinity.

    anyways ive said too much already. heh….great article. come visit my site if you’d like you can start a thread there as well and discuss whatever your heart desires.

    thanks

  15. Ar198 says:

    Not reading everything (But quite a lot)– I agree that LoveCryReason should read the bible a little more…

    Because there is clearly support for more prophets after John the Baptist…

    The disagreement over Mohammad shouldn’t be over the idea that John the Baptist was the last prophet… Though he could be said to be “the last Old Testament prophet” and depending on how you look at him he might have been the reincarnation of Elijah people where looking for…
    Which would support the idea that John the Baptist was the last Old Testament Prophet..

    Mat 17:11 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.
    Mat 17:12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.”
    Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

    But there are many cases in the bible where there would be valid New Testament prophets..

    In one of Paul’s epistles – it is stated that new revelation has been given to the apostles and alludes to new prophets getting this new revelation that the previous prophets lacked.

    Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

    Joel talks about how there will be many female prophets

    Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.
    29 Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit.

    1 Corinthians gives instruction to female prophets

    1Co 11:5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head; for that is even the same as if she were shaved.

    First Corinthians also alludes to the idea that prophets were active in the early church.

    1Co 12:28 In the church God has put all in place: in the first place apostles, in the second place prophets, and in the third place teachers; then those who perform miracles, followed by those who are given the power to heal or to help others or to direct them or to speak in strange tongues. 1Co 12:29 They are not all apostles or prophets or teachers. Not everyone has the power to work miracles

    John of Palos – the supposed writer of “Revelation” could be said and argued to be a New Testament prophet.

    However, the argument should be over whether Mohammad is the last prophet… because as a Christian I believe there will be more prophets in the future…

    “Revelation” is hard to decipher…. a few literal references, and a lot of metaphorical references.

    However, Chapter 11, from my interpretation – seems to indicate that after the Temple is rebuilt – two prophets will come and preach to those living in the Final Days… and have the power of the old prophets…

    Rev 11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
    5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.
    6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.

  16. katoson says:

    Abraham is the first and John the ELDER is the last…John wrote REVELATION…and in this book it is said that the book is sealed and anyone who comes after this ,,is a false prophet..including Mohammed! THE BOOK WAS SEALED!!!!!!!!…ABRAHAM WAS THE FIRST TO HAVE FAITH ENOUGH TO SACRAFICE HIS ONLY SON..AS THIS HAPPENED WITH GOD WHO SACRAFICE HIS ONLY SON JEUS CHRIST!!!!!PERIOD. believe it or perish de from MAN MADE LAWS!

  17. Isack says:

    MD never believe Jesus as a Savior as Jesus told and God the father told us. Finally, it is people to talk about Jesus as prophet, Jesus never said He is a prophet. So, truely John the baptist is the last prophet.

    All the prophet line from Israel; and Muhammad was not include among the people of Israel. How long time Muslims will be captive of lies and sins? Seach the truth with open mind.

    • Ibn Anwar says:

      Isack, are you telling us that those believers mistook Jesus for a prophet? Why did Jesus not correct them if indeed they were mistaken in saying he was a prophet? Clearly, he approved of what they said about him. Further more, the following verses are clearly Jesus describing himself:
      “But Jesus said to them, “A PROPHET is not without honour except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”(Mark 6:4)

      “But Jesus said to them, “A PROPHET is not without honour except in his own country and his own house.”(Matthew 13:57)

      “Then he said, “Assuredly, I say to you, no PROPHET is accepted in his own country.”(Luke 4:24)

      In the article I also pointed out the following passage:
      “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize God’s Spirit: Every person who declares that Jesus Christ has come as a human has the Spirit that is from God. But every person who doesn’t declare that Jesus Christ has come as a human has a spirit that isn’t from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming. That spirit is already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

      Clearly, there is an expectation of a coming prophet in the above since it is giving you a criterion by which to accept or deny one who claims to be a prophet.

  18. pinoymoro says:

    The bible has too many contradictions.
    The Holy Quran just flows, especialy when meditated on.

    And another funny thing is…
    …christians/catholics only follow 1/4 of their “scripture”.
    Because they reject the agnostic, and so on, and so forth…etc
    The bibles library should be the size of the buddhists cannon/sutras…
    …and that’s huge!

    True followers of Issa (jesus), would take their time to study it all!

    In the end, all I can say is: Alhumdulilah, WA Subhana’Allah, that I’m a Muslim!

    I studied, and still study all, and I mean ALL, of the worlds holy scriptures, to be closer to Allah.
    And yet, none are as awesome as the Quran, and yet all of the other scriptures actually increase my faith in Islam, whether buddhist texts, vedas, tanakh, bible…etc

    If you look closer, they all lead to the same direction, and you can somehow feel the original teaching that Allah intended in these scriptures when pondered on.

    When it comes to other faiths besides Islam, you think that your way is the only way, but then what about the thousands of different peoples of the world?
    And the Holy Quran cares about all, saying in many places, that He sent down a mesenger to every people, and I believe that the Quran, Gods real word, intends to bring us ALL back.

    La illaha illah la!

    By the way, beautiful article, and beautiful responses/replies from my Muslim brothers/sisters.

    And also, Assalamu’Aliakum.

Leave a Reply

Powered by WordPress | Designed by: SharePoint Hosting | Thanks to Business Email Hosting, Project Server Hosting and Hosted Virtual Desktop